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Phoenix Archer 128
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Posted - 2013.03.02 15:16:00 -
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Piercing Serenity wrote:Shield tanks have a lower maximum EHP than armor tanks. Shield tanking allows you to fit more damage mods to your tank while increasing its EHP. This allows you to build 'Sniper Tanks' - tanks with very high Alpha damage that can break other vehicles very quickly. However, they are softer than armor tanks, and will be brought down by AV weapons faster.
Armor tanks have a much higher EHP, and benefit from repairing modules that restore armor much faster than their shield variants. These tanks are very durable, but they are slow, and easy pickings for a shield tank fitting. Hope this helps,
PS Interesting...my tanking corpmates have pretty much said the opposite in terms of overall effectiveness...that Armor Tanks rip apart Shield Tanks, but Shield Tanks are better against AV (need flux [EM] to take them out).
What I wish we had were the resistances and damage types listed...they make a world of difference in how effective certain builds are. Example: if armor is weak to explosive damage, AV being mostly explosive damage, but shields resist explosives...We need this data IMO |
Phoenix Archer 128
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Posted - 2013.03.02 20:59:00 -
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Paladin Sas wrote:Guys, you have to look at the damage types vs. the inherant resistances of the tanks defense. in new eden we deal in 4 damage types:
EM (Electromagnetic) Thermal Kinetic Explosive
Shields have increased resistance to kinetic and explosive damage while armor has increased resistances to EM and Thermal. Now take a look at the current ingame weapons and their ascociated damage types based upon the stated tech they use.
Laser Rifles - EM and Therm (yes, people use them to great effect vs shield tanks for this reason) Forgegun - Kin and Therm (based on it being a railgun type weapon thus placing it in the hybrid class) Blaster turret - Kin and Therm (also placed in the hybrid weapon class) Railgun - Kin and Therm (hybrid still xD) Swarmlauncher / missile turrets - Kin and Exp damage AV Grenades - Kin and Exp Flux Grenades - EM (possibly Them?)
that being said, look into the damage type your using vs what your trying to combat. in all reality, armor vs shield doesnt really mean anything as a well thought out AV assault using the proper damage types and tactics will take out anything. yes, armor tanks are much tankier, but their also much slower, while shield tanks cant absorb as much punishment, but have a bit more agility to compensate allowing them to "dance". also, shields regen, armor doesnt. its these balancing factors that make no one tank type superior to another, it just depends on the skill of the tanker vs the skill of the infantry hes facing.
another thing on weapon types vs other weapon types, if we look at the way new eden weapon systems work, all weapon groups have a longrange and short range variations.
long / short Rail /blaster beam laser / pulse laser (laser rifle / scrambler pistol) artillery / autocannon
long range weapon types generally have high alpha damage, but poor DPS, where short range weapon systems require you to get closer, but have much better DPS in general (balanced by their short range nature) so basically:
armor tanks more hits, shield is more agile and has natural regen rails beat blaster at range / blaster beats rail up close missiles are just funky like that
EDIT: im sure my grammar and spelling is just plain absurd, please be nice :) Like I said before we need the damage and resistance values displayed somewhere in the Neocom, for weapons, vehicles and dropsuits. I do agree with the damage types you've stated for the guns except for the swarms and AV...I would think they're doing explosive or kinetic rather than explo/kin...missiles could be any damage, but I'd guess they're either doing explosive or kinetic damage in Dust (definitely not EM, though). And based on what others say, we may have forge guns doing EM damage primarily or secondarily...I would hope not, since they are technically hybrid turrets and I don't know of any hybrid ammo that does EM damage (or explosive, for that matter...actually makes me wonder why they're AV when they shouldn't do either damage that's generally great against armor or shield, pure damage aside)...
I would really like ammo types, even if its just one for each damage type for the weapons that can have all of them, and resistance values displayed. Makes the game a little more complex...but those who are serious will figure it out if they don't know already and just make the game better... |
Phoenix Archer 128
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Posted - 2013.03.02 21:02:00 -
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Like I said...I don't do tanks, so I don't know. I would think its overall more the skill of the tank drivers (includes proper fitting) and just how much help they are getting from outside (AV, small turrets, terrain, distractions...) than exactly what they are driving if they have about the same SP into tanks (and I know a variance in the amount of SP, heck, even just where its placed, can change the battle) |
Phoenix Archer 128
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Posted - 2013.03.03 01:10:00 -
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Paladin Sas wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: Like I said before we need the damage and resistance values displayed somewhere in the Neocom, for weapons, vehicles and dropsuits. I do agree with the damage types you've stated for the guns except for the swarms and AV...I would think they're doing explosive or kinetic rather than explo/kin...missiles could be any damage, but I'd guess they're either doing explosive or kinetic damage in Dust (definitely not EM, though). And based on what others say, we may have forge guns doing EM damage primarily or secondarily...I would hope not, since they are technically hybrid turrets and I don't know of any hybrid ammo that does EM damage (or explosive, for that matter...actually makes me wonder why they're AV when they shouldn't do either damage that's generally great against armor or shield, pure damage aside)...
I would really like ammo types, even if its just one for each damage type for the weapons that can have all of them, and resistance values displayed. Makes the game a little more complex...but those who are serious will figure it out if they don't know already and just make the game better...
now that i think back, your right in that missiles are "most likely" only one damage type. thank you for pointing that out :) i would assume that the missiles fire kinetic damage due to their prevailance on caldari tanks and caldari styled launchers, and mechanics wise, it would make more sense if they were kinetic, that way, their still less effective vs shields, but not completely useless like they would be if they were explosive EDIT: on the forgegun note, the description states that its based on rail tech, so id be REALLY surprised if it was doing EM damage... especially since the only weapons that do EM/KIN dam are projectiles.... at least as far as EVE is concerned. i would imagine that they would not mix up their formula for damage types now. hence my assumption that forgeguns are Therm/Kin 2nd EDIT: Hybrids have always been a nice middleground weapon, being relatively effective vs armor AND shield, but not proficient vs either one or the other, hence their KIN/Therm dam lol...I actually went and looked up the missiles just to be sure (and yes, they only do one damage type) before posting. Since I don't drive vehicles, and really haven't seen may missiles lately, I'm not sure whether they do Kin or Exp damage...I would think the easy way to test would be to fire at a tank with shield, then fire at the same tank without its shield...does about the same damage (give or take for skills and whatnot), Kinetic; does noticeably more against armor...Explosive. Missiles are pretty bad right now, though, so while it would be good to know, its probably not going to be that important until things are fixed a bit (and even then, when they are we'll probably have the different ammo types...)
Forge gun says "based on", correct? (haven't been on Dust today and don't use the FG) While I still agree its most likely Kin/Therm, there's still that tiny possibility that it does have variant ammo (when we get ammo types) and not just Kin/Therm...At the very least, if they make it more projectile-like, it wouldn't shock me terribly, and could be good overall (stock up on EM/x FG ammo if you know shield tanking is going to happen, Exp/x if enemies are armor tanking, Kin/x if you don't know) At the very least, that should happen with the Swarms (they are a missile-variant, so it would make the most sense for them to have an ammo type for each damage) |
Phoenix Archer 128
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Posted - 2013.03.03 02:41:00 -
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The dark cloud wrote:Missiles do explosive damage so yes they are more effective against armor. But it has just to many drawbacks like slower rate of fire then railguns, less accuracy, very slow flight time and with that easy to evade (well at least the large missiles). Personally when you really insist on using a shield tank with a large blaster turret then put 2 cyclic small missile launchers on it aswell. Some extra firepower against armor tanks is allways usefull. Are you sure they do explosive damage? Missiles can do pure Kinetic, Thermal, EM or Explosive in EVE, no reason they won't do any one of them here. Without testing, though, we can't be sure what they do, and we can pretty safely rule out Therm and EM...
If you did the testing, please say so and then ignore what I said here... |
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